Discussion in 'Cardiff City Forum' started by Whitts Left Peg, 3 Jul 2019.
Sorry to offend
Quite ok my good man.
Give him the banner, WLP
Not a chance.
We all know Hartley is the Bellamy of the board.
He'll probably start an argument with himself tomorrow and vote to keep it for another week.
Similar said in many places. Either ‘Forward’ or ‘Attacking Midfielder ‘
Yeah that's fine and all its just that Tomlin's a midfielder isn't he, he's not a winger or striker
He is a secondary striker, or a number 10. Hes certainly not a midfielder in a Neil Warnock side.
The front of the middle 3 in warnock's 4-3-3, he's nowhere near far forward enough to be a second striker
Since when does Warnock play 4-3-3??
4-5-1 or at times last season 9-0-1
The season he signed Tomlin he started off in the hole behind Zohore. So 4-4-1-1. Its where he played for the Wurzels and Boro. Its where his talent does the most damage.
Tomlin is never going to get a game for Warnock as part of a midfield 3. He cant get about the pitch. Regardless of him losing weight hes still not going to have the engine required to play in a Warnock midfield. So takes me back to my original point I think we need another midfielder or two. Even if Patterson or Reid are the attacking midfielders in your 4-3-3 that leaves Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna and Damour for the other two positions. That's not good enough for a 46 game championship season where injuries and 2 games a week take its toll.
Pretty spot on, I'd like to see Tomlin having a chance behind Zohore, but that leaves Reid out (assuming our centre mid will be Vaulks and Ralls) with NML and Murphy/Hoilett out wide.
My son told me yesterday that Lewis Holtby is the attacking midfielder that warnock wanted and that he has already signed a agreement to join us later this month. I think my boy has been puffing to much weed myself, and I hope warnock has his sights set a little higher than Holtby.
Agreed. I think Tomlin is a good option to have off the bench if we are chasing a game and taking more risks.
I don’t see him being in the starting line-up especially away from home.
That’s assuming he’s going to be part of the squad this year. He could just as easily be frozen out like he has been last 18 months.
Well then 4-2-3-1 if you prefer. 1 striker, two wingers, two holding midfielders and one in the hole. And the one in the hole isn't a striker. 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 are the same thing just with the wingers deeper.
Was that not pretty much the team we played most games at the end of last season, and Tomlin would play in Camarasa's position, who is clearly not a second striker?
Although I do agree we need at least one more cm for cover of injuries given the nature of the Championship
They are not the same thing at all. Liverpools 4-3-3 is completely different to our 4-5-1. Our full backs do not get forward and the wingers have to do a hell of a lot more work than Salah and Mane.
Neither is that version of 4-2-3-1 anything like an attacking 4-2-3-1 where the 2 in midfield sit and fullbacks and attacking midfielders bomb forward. The only way Tomlin fits into that 4-2-3-1 / 4-5-1 is if it is tweaked to 4-4-1-1 and he is given the luxury of not tracking back in the way Warnock gave Taraabt a free pass at QPR many years ago and I dont see that happening. He hasnt got the engine of Patterson or Camarasa or Reid for that matter to get up and down the pitch, and thats what Warnocks demands, and thats why I still dont think he will get a look in next season.
Camarasa and Tomlin are different players. Just because Camarasa isnt a secondary striker doesnt mean Tomlin isnt? Tomlin has played in the hole without much defensive responsibility pretty much all of his career. Its in that position where hes cut some slack defensively and where he has had his best spells as a player. Its where Karanka played him at Boro and at Forest. When he was doing the business for Wurzels it was as a number 10. We dont play that way, which is why it was a surprise we signed him the first place, and and we certainly didnt play that way last season. Im pretty sure Camarasa didnt enjoy spending 80% of his time defending on the edge of his own area.
I would love it if Tomlin was given a chance to show his stuff, I love his type of footballer, but I just dont see it under Warnock unless hes given the role of a super sub and given a chance off the bench.
Great to see some good football debate in this thread.
I always enjoy reading/hearing the views of those who understand the technical side of the game more than I do.
Its all opinions at the end of the day.
Ive championed Tomlin for long enough, ive always liked him as a player, but even ive come to accept hes a square peg in a round hole in a Warnock system.
For me, Tomlin is a much better footballer than Patterson, but I do understand why Warnock, with his own tried and trusted methods, prefers Patterson to him.
Yeah, we definitely haven't seen Tomlin at his best, glimpses here and there, but no decent run of games. As you say, he's a bit of a square peg in a round hole which begs the question why we signed him
'100 per cent' not a possibility. Whatever that means!
Where Cardiff interest in Lewis Holtby now stands - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/cardiff-citys-interest-former-tottenham-16537816