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We're being shafted Part 2

Discussion in 'Cardiff City Forum' started by Arfur Ap Llewellyn Europe, 10 Jan 2019.

  1. TH63

    TH63 How I wish you were here.
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    This is going over old ground, but for a significant percentage of the British public, the most important corpse they should be trusted with is the X factor.
    There was a chap in the pub the other night bleating on about “Brixet” and how he couldn’t wait to say “up yours” to “them”.
    I concede of course that he was one moron who isn’t representative of everyone.

    Please note, with a bunch of o levels, a levels, a business degree and a professional post grad qualification behind me, I don’t consider myself qualified to make such an important decision either.
     
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  2. Arfur Ap Llewellyn Europe

    Arfur Ap Llewellyn Europe Ballon d'Or Winner
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    The whole discussion comes down to one simple fact.

    The Brexit promised before the referendum is absolutely nowhere near the Brexit that will actually be delivered.

    On that basis alone, there should absolutely be a 2nd Vote.

    As a Remainer, if that result still means Brexit, then I'm absolutely all for it despite me believing it to be the wrong decision.
     
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  3. Splott Dave

    Splott Dave Ballon d'Or Winner
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    I believe the "up yours" vote was far stronger than anything that was falsely attributed to immigration, or immigrants.

    It's not inflation which stirs political interest and a desire for change in people, but deflation or austerity. History shows us that every big sea change in politics is started as a result of the masses feeling abandoned, downtrodden or just hopelessly worse off. Needless and wasteful austerity in Britain has affected hundreds of thousands of people up and down the land, Brexit was their opportunity to say, feck you.
     
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  4. TH63

    TH63 How I wish you were here.
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    Mark this day in your diary. I completely agree.
    And I believe your comments broadly reflect those of David lammy (whatever your opinion is of the man) that the reason for defects in the NHS for example, are not due to immigrants but Tory austerity.
     
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  5. Splott Dave

    Splott Dave Ballon d'Or Winner
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    I don't have an opinion on Lammy as a man or as an individual. I do have an opinion on his statements since the referendum of 2016.
    Don't get me started on the NHS, I have a sister who is a SHO/Registrar at Stafford General Hospital, who is now having to split her time between Stafford and Stoke hospitals. In Cardiff at the Heath, we have a new ward of ambulances parked outside of A&E most nights, with people who are unable to get a bed in the largest hospital in Wales.
     
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  6. Nid Dave

    Nid Dave Ballon d'Or Winner
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    I thought Llandough was the overflow for the Heath. I was enroute to the Heath following a fall two years ago and was redirected to Llandough as I was going down Caerphilly Road.
     
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  7. Splott Dave

    Splott Dave Ballon d'Or Winner
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    It has emergency admission for patients going through a mental health crisis. It has urgent admission and assessment in the main building during the night. But frankly with the state of the ambulance service in Wales (and the rest of the country) you're better off making your own way there, as opposed to waiting four or five hours as a patient requiring urgent treatment.
     
  8. Splott Dave

    Splott Dave Ballon d'Or Winner
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    So we can check out of Hotel California whenever we like? We're just not allowed to leave it.
     
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  9. TH63

    TH63 How I wish you were here.
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    We are allowed to leave.

    What the impact would be on our economy in doing so without a deal is the scary bit.
     
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  10. Splott Dave

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    I agree.

    But if we allowed project fear to rule our lives, we wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.

    We're not leaving a political union, we're leaving an economic union which uses politics to advance a neo-liberal economic agenda. If you want more austerity, more welfare cuts, more erosion of democracy as an individual country, then opt to stay in.
     
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  11. TH63

    TH63 How I wish you were here.
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    True, but as yet I'm yet to see any evidence that leaving, certainly without a deal, would lead to less austerity and less cuts.

    Without a deal, the pound will almost certainly nosedive, the cost of imports will go through the roof (due to the exchange rate and tarrifs). Wales will no longer receive EU finding, and will have to rely on our friends in Westminster.

    The IMF and the Bank of England, to name but two organisations, have warned of the effects of a no-deal. The latter stated that interest rates, inflation and unemployment would all rise in a no-deal scenario.

    If we accept that people voted to leave, as you say "as a result of the masses feeling abandoned, downtrodden or just hopelessly worse off." then surely the no-deal scenario is going to hurt them the most?

    Recent speculation that the withdrawal date might be extended led to a spike in the value of the pound,

    From Reuters "
    Peter Hargreaves, the billionaire who was the second biggest donor to the 2016 leave campaign, and veteran hedge fund manager Crispin Odey told Reuters they expect Britain to stay in the EU despite their campaign victory in the 2016 referendum.

    As a result, Odey, who runs hedge fund Odey Asset Management, said he is now positioning for the pound to strengthen after his flagship fund previously reaped the benefit of betting against UK assets amid wider market fears about the impact of Brexit."

    Let sink in a moment with all those disenfranchised, abandoned, downtrodden masses - Some already fabulously wealthy man financially backed the leave campaign and made a small fortune on the back of the result, and now stands to make another fortune if the result gets delayed/overturned.

    Arch Brexiteer, Jacob Ress Mogg himself, has predicted that there will be no economic benefit to the country for around fifty years. Half of leave voters will be long gone by then.

    Mark my words, the only people who will see any economic benefit are the speculators and hedge fund managers, and they will make money whatever happens.

    I totally accept that we have different views, and I'm certainly not trying to change yours. For the sake of future generations, I genuinely hope I'm wrong, but I have yet to see any valid argument that suggests I'm not.
     
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  12. Splott Dave

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    It boils down to this.

    Do you wish to make an economic case for Remain? I f the answer is yes then stay in.
    Or do you wish to make a political case for Brexit, based on democracy, political independence and sovereignty? In which case the logic dictates, leave.
     
  13. TH63

    TH63 How I wish you were here.
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    That's probably what it boils down to tbh.

    Economics comes first for me.
     
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  14. Bernie Clifton

    Bernie Clifton Club and Country Superstar

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    Couldn't really give a fuck about any of this shit. As long as I can continue to drink beer for breakfast and have long wanks at night, what's the issue?
     
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  15. TH63

    TH63 How I wish you were here.
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    The Society of Independent Brewers (SIBA), which represents 850 breweries in the UK, is hoping ale enthusiasts are prepared to dig deeper into their wallets.

    “It is important that beer drinkers understand the challenges that face Britain’s independent brewers in terms of rising costs but also the fundamental truth that craft beers rely heavily on quality, often imported ingredients,” said its managing director, Mike Benner.
     
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  16. smellons

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    Well Mike, necessity is the mother of invention and all that..if they’re too expensive to import, let’s find ways to make our own so you can keep your prices where they are and not use any convenient excuse to put them up.
    I do wonder if Brexit may in this sense ironically present a silver lining in creating new business opportunities for British companies to produce more goods for its own domestic market in the event importing goods becomes challenging in the longer term. In following the growing cultural trend of price wars, we may have unknowingly (or ignorantly) allowed imported goods to surreptitiously creep in and grow to the extent that they have killed off parts of our domestic industry. Maybe Brexit will be the kick up the arse our industry therefore needs to get back on its feet? Obviously it works both ways though, so I appreciate we may still be faced with an issue relating to exports. Ah fuck it, I don’t know anymore. Just hoping the electricity is still on come April 1st and that I can still get Estrella on tap.
     
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  17. lardy

    lardy pelanty taker
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    We might find its not so easy to click our fingers and start producing everything, including raw materials, ourselves. But if we do, I suspect ingredients for a nice beer will be way down the list of priorities.
     
  18. Vimto

    Vimto vile lefty
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    I'm sure you are right.
    If so -
    In life, we have all got frustrated and said / done things out of frustration, to make a point, to get a reaction. Sometimes actually about something else that had been festering.

    And then, later, thought better of it, maybe.

    Imagine if we could all be given an opportunity to see if we really meant what we said, or if we still feel that way.
    Apparently, that's unthinkable.
     
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  19. Splott Dave

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    So what you are saying, just so there is no misunderstanding on this crucial issue, that Rees-Moggs opinion on the economy, which is from a perspective on what is going to benefit him and his kind, takes precedence over those whose lives have been adversely affected during the last nine years of austerity. Their plight or situation is irrelevant, just so long as there are economic benefits for the 1% of the population.
     
  20. Splott Dave

    Splott Dave Ballon d'Or Winner
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    So what do you say to the people waiting for a bed on a ward at 3am lying in an ambulance being tended to by nurses who need to go to food banks to make ends meet, and doctors who can't afford to buy their own homes?

    What do you say to the tens of thousands who have been stripped of benefits, who can't get benefits after their cancer diagnosis, or those who have had their Motability contracts revoked, by private companies that receive financial incentives to do just that?

    The EU is not a democracy, it is not transparent, it makes its laws in secret sessions. It was set up as an economic union, one based on neo-liberal capitalism which has always promoted austerity and ongoing privatisation, over democracy.
     

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