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Discussion in 'Cardiff City Forum' started by Colonel Cardiffi, 4 Dec 2018.
Day of drama in Westminster today, what on earth does it all mean though?
It means no one really got a clue anymore. No one from from top to bottom. Not a fucking clue.
The ineptitude of our politicians is being mixed up with the merits of Brexit. I remain a leaver but the abject failure of a) the Tories to unite behind a leader b) Labour to adopt any form of position and c) in albeit difficult circumstances the PM’s ability to negotiate an interim position that pleases no one is depressing.
How anybody can still be anywhere near a Leaver after all the proof of the Leave campaign dark money, Russian meddling, false positives, inept Government, Brexit Minister resignations, chief supporters such as JRM / Boris / Davis etc and now the hiding of legal advice is absolutely gobsmacking!!!
The reason for voting Leave had more to do with the EU than what you mentioned. Our position on that has not altered. Just very sad that such a pig's ear has been made of it.
Better to reform the EU from within. We had all sorts of vetos and rebates anyway. And the campaign to leave the EU to keep all the 'brown people' out was laughable.
The only positive I see is if we see the EU implode in future years, which would still be an absolute catastrophe for us.
You've just made the same point as me. You are simply coming at it from the other side
The English parliament is a joke
There is surely only one way to progress from this complete shitstorm and that is a People's Vote, now all the actual facts are known and the secretive legal ramifications being revealed later today.
It would have to be a 3 way vote of No Deal, May's Deal or Remain.
To avoid accusations of splitting the Leave vote, those options should be added together vs Remain.
If Remain still lost that, then as a Remainer I'd have absolutely no quarrel with leaving.
Europe have never wanted us to leave and have made it as difficult as possible for that to happen and i saw a big moment yesterday where the EU governer gave us an easy option to revoke article 50 and return everything to as it was before the referendum. once the government is defeated next week i think we will eventually go down the road of a peoples vote and possibly following the revoke path. a second vote is the only way it can be done democratically going forward.
i am no fan of theresa may but at least she has given it a shot wheras the rest of them and in particular corbyn have only had the interests of party politics and gaining power as their agenda instead of all parties getting together on a united front to sort the mess out. Once this is all done and dusted cameron should be hung from a lamppost in parliament square for causing this shit storm out of self interest and protecting his own arse by getting into bed with the lib dems
Yep, I always thought it was important not to look at the questions in isolation.
Can the UK be successful out of the EU? Absolutely yes.
Are the people in parliament capable of achieving that? I have no faith at all of this (that's Labour and Tory).
You need them both together or it's like sticking a tenner on Hamilton to win the grand prix but he's in a reliant robin.
Cameron, Farage, Boris, Banks, I keep changing my mind as to who bears the most responsibility for wrecking the UK
Ballot paper should require four boxes, voters must tick one of the first two options and one of the second two. That way a remainer can also have a vote on the deal if they lost, although one would assume most would tick deal.
Sadly though, I still think this proposal may be beyond the intellectual grasp of half the country.
If we have a vote, now with more knowledge about the likely impacts, and we still vote Brexit, I'd accept it, although I think the damage caused to our country, both in economic terms and the divisions between people, will be felt for decades to come.
I'll leave you with the thoughts on a second referendum from this arch brexiteer
I can understand why legal advice is privileged and wouldn't be shared, but its going to be now anyway so its a moot point.
"Peoples Vote"? We had one. If we have another and "remain" wins, is it then one all so best of three?
Cameron by a mile for me. I'd add Corbyn to your list of candidates as well mind (I say that as a Labour voter).
Farage for whipping up the EDL and their ilk into a frenzy.
Cameron for appeasing them.
The UK ain't wrecked. Not by a long chalk. These are difficult times and may get trickier but we certainly are not wrecked. And if you're compiling a list, add the architects of the EU superstate somewhere near the top